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Re: [ranchos] La Catrina
- To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
- Subject: Re: [ranchos] La Catrina
- From: "David P. Delgado" <dpdelgado@...>
- Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 11:17:20 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
- Reply-to: "David P. Delgado" <dpdelgado@...>
Joseph, My answer to you comes from my own observations and experiences. I've never seen any scholarly research work on "pachuquismo". I don't want to sound as though I somehow know everything about the subject. My answere to your questions is "yes". Gangs existed before the pachuco style of dress became popular. I saw the gangsters adopt the pachuco style of dress. I also saw many young people, non-criminal, non-gangster, imitate the style of dress. The non-gangster pachuco was accepting of any and all who wanted to "join" the "movement". I saw anglos, african-americans and others accepted as gangsters. The depiction of this in Luis Valdez' movie, "Zoot Suit", matches my recollections. As a pre-teen and teen-ager I thought it was cool to peg my baggy pants. There is a way to fold and roll up the pant leg so that it looks custom-made (from a distance). Some people in the forties and fifties accepted the pachuco style just as many young people today seem to think that the "gangsta" is cool. The problem is that many of the folks who dressed as pachucos were downright mean and violent. There were many people who had a saying: ...all pachucos are chicanos but not all chicanos are pachucos... For many folks their negative experiences did not allow for any good words for the pachucos. Our language possesses so many layers of regional- and culturally-specific meanings that it's really hard to come up with any meaningful "explanation". There are gangs everywhere, Joseph. Even our schools, every schools, is infected with them. Some to a greater degree than others. Some places, L.A. for example, there is a virtual war ongoing between law enforcement and gangs. You know, this discussion could go on for days. I have tried, in my younger years, to talk with others about it. It always becomes emotional for some people. I used to have more facts at my disposal when I was teaching a Chicano studies course in the seventies. I haven't quite kept up with it as of the nineties when I moved into administration. It's a very absorbing and interesting subject. It's too bad that the academics and activists never did get together on this. Later... David Delgado in Albany, CA -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Puentes <makas@...> Sent: Jul 5, 2005 11:51 PM To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ranchos] La Catrina <html><body> <tt> <BR> <BR> David P. Delgado wrote:<BR> <BR> >Emilie,<BR> ><BR> >As I remember, Posada created a caricature of the overdressed upper class types in 19th Century Mexico. El Catrin = "dandy" and la Catrina is the feminine form of the word. La Catrina was a person but a generic stereotype. Posada did not intend the caricature to be a complimentary one.The only other people I heard use the word "catrin" were the pachucos in the late 1940's and the early '50's. They used it to describe someone who was dressed up and looked "sharp". I grew up in Southern Cal and saw many pachucos including family members.<BR> ><BR> man did the pachucos dress sharp!!! My uncle was one and I can remember <BR> his cool threads. I was young and never understood but did the pachucos <BR> hang together as gangs? Or were they all individuals? Did the "pachuco <BR> movement" ever cross the border? Are there gangs in Mexico now. . .as in <BR> the types of gangs we see in US now?<BR> <BR> curious minds need to know,<BR> <BR> joseph<BR> <BR> ><BR> >David in Albany, CA<BR> ><BR> >-----Original Message-----<BR> >From: "Steve G. Apodaca" <sgapodaca@...><BR> >Sent: Jul 5, 2005 4:12 PM<BR> >To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com<BR> >Subject: [ranchos] La Catrina<BR> ><BR> ><html><body><BR> ><BR> ><BR> ><tt><BR> >Here is a link to the picture of La Catrina<BR><BR> ><BR><BR> ><a href="<a href="http://muertos.palomar.edu/posada/skelhat.JPG";>http://muertos.palomar.edu/posada/skelhat.JPG</a>"><a href="http://muertos.palomar.edu/posada/skelhat.JPG";>http://muertos.palomar.edu/posada/skelhat.JPG</a></a><BR><BR> ><BR><BR> >There are several of Posada's drawings in the following page. Just <BR><BR> >scroll down to &quot;Calaveras&quot;<BR><BR> ><BR><BR> ><a href="<a href="http://muertos.palomar.edu/posdad.htm";>http://muertos.palomar.edu/posdad.htm</a>"><a href="http://muertos.palomar.edu/posdad.htm";>http://muertos.palomar.edu/posdad.htm</a></a><BR><BR> ><BR><BR> >Steve.<BR><BR> >OC,CA<BR><BR> ><BR><BR> ><BR><BR> ><BR><BR> >--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, &quot;Emilie Garcia&quot; <BR><BR> >&lt;auntyemfaustus@h...&gt; wrote:<BR><BR> >&gt; Ok, now, who is La Catrina?&nbsp; Even my husband, who was more into <BR><BR> >the culture until the age of 12 in El Paso, doesn't know either.<BR><BR> >&gt; <BR><BR> >&gt; Emilie Garcia<BR><BR> >&gt; Port Orchard, WA<BR><BR> >&gt; <BR><BR> >&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR><BR> >&gt; From: Natalie<BR><BR> >&gt; Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 4:38 AM<BR><BR> >&gt; To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com<BR><BR> >&gt; Subject: [ranchos] Dia de los Muertos<BR><BR> >&gt; <BR><BR> >&gt; I don't remember &quot;celebrating&quot; this holiday as a youngster (in <BR><BR> >the&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; 40's &amp; 50's), either. And it is only in the last 10-15 yrs that I&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; have been exposed to this custom.<BR><BR> >&gt; In the past two years the Smithsonian has had public programs for&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; DDLM, (one day affairs) with music (strolling mariachi), dance,&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; displays, and crafts.<BR><BR> >&gt; The Mexican Cultural Institute (Washington, DC), in the building <BR><BR> >that&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; formerly housed the Embassy of Mexico, have hosted a DDLM exhibit <BR><BR> >the&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; past 3 yrs - with a magnificent altar in their blue &amp; white tiled <BR><BR> >sun&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; room, reception, and music. Last year there was even a woman <BR><BR> >dressed&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; as La Catrina.<BR><BR> >&gt; About 6 or 7 yrs ago I began putting up an altar in my yard (then&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; moved it to the porch). I would put it up a day or two before&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; Halloween - so trick or treaters would get an education when they&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; came for their treats. I deviated from the standard of <BR><BR> >remembering&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; and honor family members by remembering friends and family who <BR><BR> >had&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; died in the previous 12 months - I would just post a list. I got <BR><BR> >a&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; lot of ideas online on how to set it up. It has evolved over the&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; years. Now my two oldest grand-children (ages 5 &amp; 3) look forward <BR><BR> >to&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; helping me set up the altar. As they grow older maybe they will <BR><BR> >have&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; an understanding of honoring the antepasados.<BR><BR> >&gt; Thanks to all for sharing the cemetery memories - very informative.<BR><BR> >&gt; Happy Fourth! * * * (fireworks!)<BR><BR> >&gt; <BR><BR> >&gt; Natalie<BR><BR> >&gt; <BR><BR> >&gt; <BR><BR> >&gt; <BR><BR> >&gt; <BR><BR> >&gt; <BR><BR> >&gt; YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt; <BR><BR> >&gt;&nbsp; Visit your group &quot;ranchos&quot; on the web.<BR><BR> >&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt;&nbsp; To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR><BR> >&gt;&nbsp; ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR><BR> >&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR> >&gt;&nbsp; Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of <BR><BR> >Service. 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![http://muertos.palomar.edu/posada/skelhat.JPG"](http://muertos.palomar.edu/posada/skelhat.JPG"){kind=link}
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