Re: Franciscan Covenant Records: was-Trip to Jalisco, Zacatecas

["Arturo Ramos" <arturo.ramos2@...>]

Only 1720 on are filmed and in the databases, because those are the 
actual parish records of the San Luis parish.

However, Esteban Valdes Salazar refers to Franciscan convent archives 
that are held at the parish when citing marriage and baptismal 
records from the mid and late 1600s.  They may go back further than 
that.

I was just looking at the Colotlan films today and was very 
pleasantly surprised to find that the majority of the records are for 
indigenous people and that they are assigned to their historical 
communities in the city... Tlaxcala (which was the Tlaxacltec 
section), Tochopa, Sayotlan, etc.

I bet it is possible to trace the Tlaxcaltec lineages down to the 
modern times. 

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Arturo Ramos wrote:
> 
> >There are a whole set of records from the original Franciscan 
Convent 
> >set up in Colotlan in 1591 that are supposedly at the Colotlan 
> >church.  These include baptismal and marriage records prior to the 
> >foundation of the actual church in 1720 (all of these on FHC 
> >films)... These are the ones I really want to look at.
> >
> just want to clarify. . .are you saying that the 1591-1720 records 
are 
> on microfilm? or just from 1720 forward? I have seen the 1720 
forward 
> record listing but not the other. I hope the 1591-1720 are 
available. . .
> 
> hoping in NC,
> 
> joseph
> 
> 
> >
> >I imagine that since the civil registry has to have mechanisms to 
> >obtain copies of documents in their possession, they can be more 
> >reticent about letting people see the originals... plus I have 
heard 
> >that documents created since the time civil registry was 
instituted 
> >in Mexico are in worse shape than the old baptismal records 
because 
> >of printing on non-acid-free paper, whereas old records were 
written 
> >with much more durable inks on much more durable paper.
> >
> >We will see.  I am looking at writing to the parish head before I 
> >head down and perhaps getting a local historian to vouch for me. 
> >
> >--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo <alliecar@p...> 
wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>Erlinda and Arturo,
> >> 
> >>I too found that they will not let you see the actual records. 
When 
> >>    
> >>
> >I went to Nochistlan Zac they were  quite advanced for a small 
town 
> >in Mexico. They all had computers at the front office of the 
Registro 
> >Civil. The records that they did have they printed out certified 
> >documents for us based on what they had in the data base. I was 
able 
> >to come away with 6 certified documents but they don't let you 
access 
> >their books. When I asked for documents for my parents of 1925 
they 
> >said they don't have any books for 1925 they were all destroyed or 
> >lost.
> >  
> >
> >> 
> >>In Tlachichila the smaller town they have the books but they 
still 
> >>    
> >>
> >won't let you see the books and there again they did not have 
records 
> >for 1925. I need to talk to the town historian or read a little 
> >history to see what happened in the year 1925.
> >  
> >
> >>I too have had better luck at my local FHC as well as at Salt 
Lake 
> >>    
> >>
> >FHC. It's still good to visit your ancestor's town but don't 
expect 
> >to see much in terms of records or archives.
> >  
> >
> >>Erlinda Castanon-Long <longsjourney@y...> wrote:
> >>Arturo, When I was in El Limon Jalisco in 2003 we went to the 
> >>    
> >>
> >parish 
> >  
> >
> >>office and talked with the girl in the office who told us we 
could 
> >>not look at the actual books even though they were on the shelf 
> >>behind her.  The priest walked in and asked what family we were 
> >>looking for? My cousin's husband was trying to find his Santana 
> >>ancestors who turned out to be part of the priests family.  He 
> >>    
> >>
> >asked 
> >  
> >
> >>what year and took out a book wrapped in plastic because it was 
> >>frail.  We opened it and the pages started turning to dust and 
> >>blowing away.  Needless to say we closed it immediately and 
thanked 
> >>him for allowing us to try.  It's very dry there and no special 
> >>precautions were taken to preserve the books.
> >>We went to Tamazula de Gordiano Jalisco next and they were so 
busy 
> >>that they gave very poor service telling us they tried but 
couldn't 
> >>find the records.  They had no copy machine so would have to do a 
> >>form letter for whatever information was found, came home and 
found 
> >>the records at the local FHC.. 
> >>In Jerez Zacatecas they didn't have a copy machine either but 
were 
> >>willing to talk to my cousin who's Spanish was much better than 
> >>mine. I found it was much easier to get the records at the FHC.  
I 
> >>didn't try to find land records or any other type of records 
> >>    
> >>
> >though, 
> >  
> >
> >>that was beyond my abilities to read records. Our time was 
limited 
> >>so I had to chose what to try to accomplish so I decided to enjoy 
> >>the land and the people.
> >>I hope you have better luck than I did.
> >>Linda in Everett
> >>
> >>--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos" 
<arturo.ramos2@v...> 
> >>wrote:
> >>    
> >>
> >>>I will be spending about three weeks this December and January 
in 
> >>>Jalisco and Zacatecas and am hoping to make it to the parrishes 
> >>>      
> >>>
> >in 
> >  
> >
> >>>Colotlan and Tlaltenango, perhaps Atolinga as well as the 
> >>>      
> >>>
> >archives 
> >  
> >
> >>in 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Guadalajara...
> >>>
> >>>Question... has anyone ever asked to see the actual books held 
at 
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>the 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>parrishes?  I am thinking of asking to photograph some of them, 
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>but 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>don't know how well that would go over.
> >>>
> >>>Any tips would be appreciated.  I am also going to try to do an 
> >>>interview with Esteban Valdes Salazar who has published some 
very 
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>good 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>genealogy and history books on Totatiche.  He is the 
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>local "cronista" 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>and has obviously spent lots of time pouring over old archival 
> >>>documents, including the transcription of the 1591 census of 
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>Tlaxcaltec 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>migrants to Colotlan and the entire 1770 Totatiche census (over 
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>3000 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>names).  So if there are any questions anyone would like to ask, 
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>please 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>let me know.
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>SPONSORED LINKS 
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> >>    
> >>
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> >  
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