Emilie,
Joseph, please bottom of message.
Eemilie: Re your >But those results show that an
African Eve (L1-a) entered into my lineage at some point.<
In southern Mexico tthere were quite a number of black
slaves and free blacks. Results like yours would not be uncommon. In
fact they would be very common in places like Tabasco, southern Sinaloa,
Coahuila, San Luis Potosi, Guerrero state, and about five other
states. All of them have large pockets where a large number of blacks
lived. I suspect that these and Filipino will be somewhat common in
the Mexican seaports. These are just the special places, however, In Mexico
Blacks went to all corners of the country. I Know people from Puebla
who have black backgounds. By the way, Some of those Mexican blacks moved
to California. Goevernor Pico and family did.
Regarding blacks in Mexico, there are pretty good records
of when Blacks arrived in Mexico and for how long a period there were slaves in
Mexico. In some states there are pretty good histories of when blacks
arrived there and where and with whom they went to live. I have a book covering
San Luis Potosi and a couple of others covering part of the Zacatecas
region (not the present state but the region). I can look up dates and
other facts for you later when I get out of school. I am presently having
midterms and finals in about four weeks, so I am very busy. I will be
answering a lot of my mail as I get the time even if it is late because some of
it is really important for our purposes.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The person writing below is Ann from the Rootsweb DNA
List.
"maternal lines in (or back to) Zacatecas,
especially Tepetongo to test for mtDNA. I don't think anyone has
started a Zacatecas mtDNA project yet...::Grin::"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE from Elvira: She sent me some
references when I asked for information about Haplogroup A, which is the
oldest mother branch known to date in the Americas. This is the most
prevalent matriarchal branch in Mexico. If you are interested or know of
anyone who would be interested in a haplogroup A discussion group, please let me
know.
What follows is what Ian sent me as a quick
explanation about haplogroup A.
Haplogroup A is a widespread
haplogroup - stretching all the way from Western Asia, across to China &
Japan, and into the Americas.
It would seem that the migrations eastwards
were only of small groups; and I would suggest there were never any big
populations.
Nowadays, it would seem that only Japan has a meaningful
percentage of persons of Haplogroup A.
Anyway, you are Haplogroup A
- and from an 'American twiglet'. Presumably we are talking about descent from
persons going into
the Americas between 5,000 and 15,000 years
ago.
...........
So, "A very nice Haplogroup A pattern". Yes, a very
typical Haplogroup A. Clearly you are 'A' and no thoughts of anything
else.
...........
6. Mishmar
A42.JS AY195786(Mixteca-B).
Yes, this is the one I mentioned. There
is, for the present, quite a shortage of complete sequences for the 'American
twigs' of Branch A.
There are lots from Japanese people - but these are
clearly different from your result.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE
from Elvira: Below are my mtDNA readings so that you can see what Ian is
refering to right below my numbers.
HVR1 Haplogroup A
(these readings just give you the general group and are called low
resolution)
with differences from CRS at
16111T
16223T
16290T
16319A
16335G
16526A
HVR2
differences from CRS at
(these are the ones
that make it high resolution, or give you a good idea with similar names
or a paper trail or proximity i the same area that those that also match you
here might be your relatives in somewhere back 5-7 generations
ago).
64T
73G
146C
153G
235G
263G
309.1C
315.1C
..............
NOTE: Ian says.....
The 64T is an especially nice feature.
OK, let me talk a bit about
this for a bit and see if I can show why some mutations are more 'special' than
others
So here is your list - placed in numeric order. [the order
inwhich they present themselves in the DNA string
sequence].
64T, 73G, 146C,
153G, 235G, 263G, 309.1C, 315.1C 16111T, 16223T, 16290T, 16319A, 16335G,
16526A
But that is not the order in which they occurred in your
ancestors.
So, let me separate the mutations that don't really belong to
Haplogroup A; and these are:
73G, 263G, 309.1, 315.1, 16223T
as these are the mutations that separate Haplogroup H (and the
Cambridge Reference Sequence (CRS) from your haplogroup.
This leaves just
9 mutations which are special for Haplogroup A.
64T, 146C, 153G, 235G, 16111T, 16290T, 16319A, 16335G,
16526A
Now, let me see if it is possible to put these in some sort of
historical order ?
Well, 235G, 16290T & 16319A, 16111T & 146C
probably come next;
and possibly represents what your ancestor had on entry
to the Americas.
And, what is left - well:
64T, 153G, 16335G, 16526A
and this list represents your more 'personal' mutations; and each of
these is really quite uncommon anywhere in the World - you are very lucky
!
as most people do not have any 'personal' mutations, let alone 4
!
Actually, now I have looked at things more closely, I find that 16335G
is more even more special than 64T .
.............
So that is it; and
over the next few years you want to look out for mention of your 4 'personal'
mutations. I haven't looked up any papers that deal with American
populations, - the Mixteca is just one in Mexico (I think), but I think Ann has
written to say there might be something to be found about
Panamanians.
NOTE from Elvira: I looked up the
Panamanian group and sure enough, they were haplogrooup A.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had been thinking about it
forming our own haplogroup A from Tepetongo because I have not had many
matches, other than a female who was adopted somewhere in California (doesn't
have any paper trail as she never knew who her biological parents
were),
and a male from New Mexico.
Both matched me in high resolution match which means that probably we are
related about 5-7 generations back) . These matches were high resolution matches
which makes them highly intriguing. The male's mother does come from
a Zacatecas family and the female is a question mark as to
location but I have a feeling that she is Mexican (she doesn't know what
nationality she is).
My ancestress from Tepetongo
(Maria-Josefa Luera/Loera (this is a last name of French origin from the Loire
Valley in the Celtic area of France, perhaps her father was French? )
was always refered to as being Spanish," but
DNA showed that she was Indian (interesting since all her female descendants
have looked white down to my grandma who was also referred to as being
"Spanish". Her husband was also referred to as being Spanish,
unfortunately I don't have his DNA.
My grandma
married an Indian from Zacatecas. Exactly half of her kids came out white and
the other half came out brown. I might add, all looked alike, just
some white and some brown!).
Now,
this is my maternal grandfather's branch: The first test
results from a direct descendant from this Indian branch just came in (low
resoution @ 12 markers). This male is being shown as belonging to
haplogroup I, which is associated with Europe. No one seems to be European in
that branch, nor is there any memory of anyone being "Spanish", i. e.
white), thus this YDNA group is befuddling.
The following is what I got from the FTDNA site.
**The I, I1, and I1a lineages are nearly completely restricted to
northwestern Europe. These would most likely have been common within Viking
populations. One lineage of this group extends down into central Europe**
Ian from the Brooking Society sent me this
explanation:
> Unfortunately, I cannot add much to
what you know.
>
> The y-chromosome Haplogroup I is a very sparse
group, and it is found in very low numbers throughout Europe.
>
> In the Brooking Society tests we have found just one Haplogroup I
result, and have also wondered where it comes from.
>
> Certainly,
it is European, and is not Native American. Possibly we are talking about
an early population that travelled northwards past the Caspian and Black
Seas and into Northern Europe. There are 'I' people found in the Viking
peoples - but I suggest
> that Haplogroup I pre-dates the 'Vikings' by
several thousands of years. Overall, I think that
Haplogroup I people are survivors from the very earliest people who came
into Europe. Whereas the R1's are very much later, and represent
sudden population growths from possibly 2,000-3,000 years
ago.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 2:35
PM
Subject: Maternal Lineage in
Tepetongo/Huejucar-Re: [ranchos]
Emilie Garcia wrote:
Hello, Elvira?
(I can't tell who is writing what in the messages below).
However, one comment peaked my interest: "maternal
lines in (or back to) Zacatecas, especially Tepetongo to test for
mtDNA. I don't think anyone has started a Zacatecas mtDNA
project yet...::Grin::" I must confess
that all this talk about DNA and Haplogroups and "numbers" is way over my
head. However, I am very interested in your particular results, since
you state that you are looking for more people with maternal lineage in the
area of Tepetongo, Zacatecas.
I've yet to ask my cousin to do a Mt-DNA test to find
the exact results of my Dad's mom's side of the family that goes directly to
the Salitral Ranchos of the Tepetongo Cabezera, but I do have my Mt-DNA tests
in the folder that take me back to Huejucar which is not far. But those
results show that an African Eve (L1-a) entered into my lineage at some point.
joseph
by Date 
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