Navigate Messages: by Date - in Thread
Main Index - Date Index - Thread Index
 

Re: [ranchos]

 
Hello, Elvira?
 
(I can't tell who is writing what in the messages below).  However, one comment peaked my interest:  "maternal lines in (or back to) Zacatecas, especially  Tepetongo to test for mtDNA.  I don't think anyone has started a Zacatecas  mtDNA project yet...::Grin::"   I must confess that all this talk about DNA and Haplogroups and "numbers" is way over my head.  However, I am very interested in your particular results, since you state that you are looking for more people with maternal lineage in the area of Tepetongo, Zacatecas.  My mother was from the Juarez-New Mexico area, descended from settlers who had been there since the 1500's, so I guess my DNA would only follow her maternal lines.  However, my father's people for two hundred years that I have studied so far (back to the early 1700s) in the Tepetongo area (Salitrillo, to be exact) never lived anywhere else until my father and his father immigrated to the States in 1916. 
 
 Unfortunately, my father and his immediate relatives are all gone now and I was never close to his relatives.  I wonder if his first cousin (a male whose mother was sister to my father's father) could provide DNA results that would show origins in Tepetongo via his maternal line, either he or a second cousin of mine whose grandfather  and father bore the same surname (Olague) and whose grandfather was brother to my father's father.  I've hesitated approaching them since they wouldn't know anything about DNA and would be suspicious, etc. My uncle (my father's first cousin---primo hermano) is very elderly now and might not remember me, and I have never met my second cousins.
 
I am so intrigued by the mention that your sequences and combinations are quite rare.  I found that my father's people were Basques who came to Zacatecas in the 1500's.  Basques are known to have a very rare DNA and language and customs, aren't they?  No one seems to know their origins.  Also, many of the names I find in my father's lines sound so Italian to me---Marcelo, Marcelino, Regina, Suriano, etc.  I find no mention anywhere of Italians in Zacatecas anywhere else. I think there were also several Sephardic Jewish lines ---Acevedo (Portuguese?), Reveles (Sephardic?), etc.  My father used to say his ancestors were French, but I find no evidence of that so far. 
 
Please keep us apprised of what you find.  It is of particular interest to me.
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

----- Original Message -----
From: elviraz
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:23 PM
Subject: [ranchos]

Hello, Everyone,
 
After much searching totry to make some sense out of  my mtDNA reslutts (after not finding much) I finally decided to put it on the DNA list up for comments.  The comments verify what I had suspected: there are not many of us out there.  This is consistent with my family's history.  I have added some comments to the responses. Some relevant comments I have received with some  references that might be of interest. I hope the links are useful.
 
Elvira

these are my numbers for my mtDNA, with  differences from CRS at
 
16111T
16223T
16290T
16319A
16335G
16526A
 
HVR2 differences  from  CRS at
 
64T
73G
146C
153G
235G
263G
309.1C
315.1C 
 
 
 
Looking in the mtDNA concordance
 
_http://www.bioanth.cam.ac.uk/mtDNA/hvr1c.html_ (http://www.bioanthcam.ac.uk/mtDNA/hvr1c.html) , 
 
 I find  no HVR1 sequences just like yours, although there are many close in  the Native American peoples of both North and South America. 
 
There occurrences of any mutations on 16526 of any kind. 
 
In the Human Mitochondrial Genome Database there are 16 occurrences of  16526A in various locations in Europe and Asia (mostly Asian).  There are  also 4
occurrences of 16335G, one each Japanese, Saami, Italian and PNG  Highlands in Melanesia.
 
The good news is that this appears to be a rather [rare]? combination of HVR1+HVR2,  which means that exact matches at the high-resolution level indicate  a
definite relationship. The question is when?   Given the  geographic and temporal proximity of you and your match, I'd be inclined to  look for more people with
maternal lines in (or back to) Zacatecas, especially  Tepetongo to test for mtDNA.  I don't think anyone has started a Zacatecas  mtDNA project yet...::Grin::
 
Your HVR2 sequence is found in
Kolman CJ, Bermingham E, Cooke R, Ward RH, Arias TD, Guionneau SF (1995) 
Reduced mtDNA diversity in the Ngöbé Amerinds of Panama. Genetics  140:275-283
Kolman,95; NG1; [A]; Ngöbé(1)
?Kolman,95; NG2; [A];  Ngöbé(9)
 
Anne (from the DNA list on rootsweb).
 
NOTE:  Anne's suggestion is  what I have been thinking about for a long time because there had not been any matches found for me.  The Panama mention is interesting as I lived in Panama for  some years.  I had a bit of contact with Panamanian Indians . Also my children were born there. EZP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I've had my mtDNa results for a while and so far no matches anywhere with any other females.  I  have a match with a man  whose female ancestor
(dob: bef. 1693). was from Zacatecas.  Her descendants now live in New  Mexico.
 
My last known ancestor in my maternal line is Maria-Josefa Luera, born in Rancho  Arroyo Seco de Abajo, Tepetongo, 1821. This place was once a sort of a way station for the people developing the logging industry in the area.  Any comments from anyone?
 
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Yes, a very nice Haplogroup A pattern.
 
You might like to look at the sequence from 'Mishmar' (marked 6 on my chart) - which is a complete American sequence with striking similarities.
The 64T is an especially nice feature.
 
 
Ian
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now for something a bit different: a member of my group  was tested by FamilyTreeDNA and put into haplogroup I. This is what I found for this group in their own site:

**The I, I1, and I1a lineages are nearly completely restricted to northwestern Europe. These would most likely have been common within Viking populations. One lineage of this group extends down into central Europe**

This was most unexpected since his family is Indian from Nochistlan, Zacatecas.  According to the family written genealogy there is no one in the family who could possibly be from that part of the world, at least no one that he knows of.  We are still waiting for the other numbers for the 37 markers to come in. I checked the numbers an they do fall into the I haplogroup. Does anyone know anything about his group being in Mexico anywhere?  

 

Haploroup I

393              11

19                14                

391             10

439             11

389-1          12

389-2          28

388             14

390             22

426             11

390             13

426             14

385a           11