Yes, Arturo,
It is so frustrating to know that Anglos here don't have a clue about our
history. They are amazed when I request records for 1640, or mention
that I just downloaded a census for 1650, for example. They say "They have
records in Mexico that go back that far?--Who wrote them?" (they have no
clue as to how literate and educated the priests and notaries public
were). I tell them that I can trace some ancestors to 1543 (in Panuco,
Zacatecas). I just can't trace all the lines back that far and there are
such huge gaps sometimes due to the upheavals caused in the founding of a nation
and opening up of frontiers and the passage of time. I tell them that
Jerez where my father was born is on the National Register of Historical Places
in Mexico as a well-preserved Spanish Colonial city founded in the early
1500s. They think their 1620 settlements in Massachusetts are the oldest
in the Americas. I don't even think they realize how far back our
pre-Colombian history goes, how complex and advanced the civilization was for
the time. My sister (born in Colorado as I was) once was told by her boss
at work, "Well, Alicia, now that you have adopted this country as your
own----". My sister, aware of our mother's heritage in New Mexico since
the 1500's, blew up at him and told him, "My people had been here for hundreds
of years when your people were still back in Ireland digging up potatoes!"
I just cannot fathom the arrogance and pride of such ignoramuses. They
think their ancestors were the only explorers and settlers, etc.
The folks at the local FHC seem interested when I tell them what I find,
such as whole families at haciendas wiped out at once by the Indians (they think
such things only happened in their Old West), or that a church bell was
dedicated in the 1600's but had been manufactured in Spain in the 1500's,
etc. My husband was amazed when I told him that I found a record for a 9
year old Indian boy whose god-parents had "bought" him. I also find
that some men used their mother's surname and never their father's (making it
such fun to trace), yet both parents are listed on the baptismal record, and of
course the Indians were given only first names as were the Negro slaves in
the American South.
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:10
PM
Subject: [ranchos] Re: Bautismos de Hijos
Legitimos
You know that's right Elvira. I talk to the Nordic
people at my
family history center and they cannot believe that there are
even
records for Mexico in the 1700s let alone records that list maternal
and paternal names up to the grandparents... along with race/caste,
etc. As wrong as the motives may have been for maintaining all of
this information... knowledge=control and the maintainance of
information like this was obviously meant to categorize and keep
people in their place. Nevertheless this information gives us a
beautiful window into the lives of our ancestors.
Emilie: Neither
my father nor I have been able to locate my
grandfather's birth
certificate... either at the civil registry in
the town where he was born
nor in Gudadalajara. I think there were a
lot of records lost just
before the revolution. The government in
Mexico was very weak and then a
lot of records were destroyed. We
are lucky we have been able to
find his baptismal records.
I have a similar issue in my father's
lineage much further back. I
have a gggg grandfather who was an
"expuesto" and whose background I
cannot confirm. Even if his
adoptive father is his illegitimate
father, two generations futher back
there is an illegimate child's
birth whose baptismal records do not appear
in Mazapil, where he
claims to have been born. Somewhat
frustrating.
There is a book by Thomas Calvo called la Nueva Galicia en
los siglos
XVI y XVII. It is a pretty rigorous ethnologic study
based on census
and baptismal registry data that shows that nearly 40% of
children
born in Nueva Galicia at the end of the XVI century were
illegitimate
and that family name transmittal was not very common in the
area at
the time. I think all of this is indicative of our families
being in
such a challenging frontier that was suffering a massive
demographic
collapse. Families were being torn apart and survival
often required
people being transient and adaptive.
Have people
gotten to this point in time where their genealogies are
still in the
Ranchos area of Nueva Galicia? I have definitely seen
more and more
illegitimate births as I have gotten closer to this
time
period.
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "elviraz"
<elviraz@e...> wrote:
>
> Victor,
>
> Yes, you
got it right. The state has always made a second copy of
the records. The
originals (when the book closes) get sent to the
state capital and the
second copy is supposed to stay in the
municipio it came from.
>
> The registro civil in Zacatecas City should have the copy of
the
tome in question (let's hope that it survived la Toma de
Zactecas).
I had this problem with records from Durango. The
documents were
found in the registro civil in the city of Durango.
>
> Like someone said before ' thank God the Spanish were
compulsive
record keepers". They taught the Mexicans
well!
>
> Elvira
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: v.h.villarreal
> To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005
8:36 PM
> Subject: [ranchos] Re: Bautismos de Hijos
Legitimos
>
>
> I'm not sure if it has always
been the same but I understand that
> civil registry records
are always made in duplicate; one for the
local
> office
and a copy for the State archives of the civil registry.
So
> even if the local copy was burnt there's a chance
that the State's
> copy survived. As I said, that is
how it is done today but I'm
not
> sure if the same rule
applied back in 1903.
>
> The other question is where
were the microfilms made, at the local
> office or at the
state office?
>
> Victor
>
>
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia"
<auntyemfaustus@h...>
> wrote:
>
>
> > Victor, I was just going over the civil registry
records I have
> checked and I haven't found any trace of my
father, aunt or
> grandmother, nor of a marriage record for
my grandfather Francisco
> Olague and grandmother Gorgonia
Garcia. I checked the civil
registry
> for
Guadalupe, a town not far from Jerez, where my aunt Soledad's
(my
> father's only sibling) death certificate says she
was born.
Also, the
> priest didn't say the
records were burned in 1903, but later when
the
>
Revolucion war came to Jerez. It seems whoever wanted to
destroy
> records set fire to the church and the civil
registry office
since the
> list of LDS films has gaps
for 1903 in the bautismos of hijos
> naturales and all other
records in the civil registry. Maybe
someone
>
there that wanted to hide something took advantage and destroyed
the
> "evidence". I know Hitler destroyed his home
town in Austria to
> prevent people finding proof he had
Jewish blood, and a lady at
the
> FHC says that some
politico in Montreal wanted to do the same
thing
>
because he was illegitimate. Why else would only a portion of
records
> go missing in both places, the church and the
civil registrar?
> >
> > One thing
I now know for sure, probably, is that since my
father
was
> not listed in the book for hijos legitimos for 1903,
that he must
have
> been listed as an hijo
natural. Since I don't find a marriage
record
>
for my grandparents, I think they were not married. My
grandfather
> was known to be a very large, tall and
intimidating man---"a very
hard
> man" someone
said. He mistreated the women in his family, even
his
> own mother, and my mother left Colorado when she
couldn't stand
his
> bullying and interference, and she
didn't return to my father
until
> after his father had
died. My father just would not stand up to
his
>
father. (My father was only five feet tall and maybe he knew
his
> father would kill him or something. She said that when
she used to
> spank his other grandchildren (my aunt's
boys), my grandfather
used to
> come and pinch me and
make me cry. He was mean and dangerous. I
>
heard from a cousin that someone was out to get him in Mexico, so
he
> came to the US during the Revolucion.
> >
> > I'll keep hacking away and
maybe the forces will feel sorry for
me
> and give me a
clue.
> >
> > Emilie
Garcia
> > Port Orchard, WA --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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