Re: Family Tree DNA Project - Sephardim and Moors

["v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@...>]

Arturo,

Now we have another thing in common: E3b.  To compare your numbers
with mine and with other E3b individuals go to this link
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/freemanDNAProject

I noticed that you quoted a thread from a while back where we discuss
DNA testing and ethnicity.  I'm sure you're not the kind of person to
draw hasty conclusions and that is good because E3b is not a
haplogroup without controversy.  Misconceptions abound, particularly
that one created by applying the wrong sematics to the field of
genetics.  What I mean is the misuse of the word "semitic" as an
adjective applicable to haplogroups E3b and others. 

This has been the source of much debate in circles dedicated to
discussions about population genetics and genealogy.  It is true that
a case can be made for a Sephardic ancestry, but just as easily a case
can be made also for a Moorish, Berber,  Phoenician, Gypsy, Roman,
Macedonian, Greek, etc.  ancestry, because this haplogroup can be
found in so many cultures and places that were at one time or another
in contact with the Iberian peninsula.  In other words, E3b does not
automatically equates Sephardic lineage or anything else.  But if your
family history reveals a strong tradition or other elements linked to
Judaism then you can safely add your haplogroup as another argument
towards that conclusion.

Just in case you haven't already searched and found these sites about E3b.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...hg/YCC_E3b.html
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...l/haplo_e3b.htm

I'll keep in touch!

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos" <arturo.ramos2@v...> wrote:
>
> I just got back the first set of results for my Y-DNA-12 marker and 
> it places my paternal lineage in the E3b haplogroup... This 
> haplogroup is related to ethnic groups originating in Southern Italy, 
> Southeastern Europe and the Middle East.  Looks like this is a 
> Sephardic lineage.
> 
> I will be getting back the remainder of the markers (13 through 25) 
> as well as the MtDNA (matrilineal) results in a couple of weeks.
> 
> I saw from previous posts that group members' maternal lines tend to 
> be Haplogroup A. Is that correct?
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Villarreal" <vela_este@y...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Emilie,
> > 
> > As always, it is evident that you're doing your homework and usually
> > marching one step ahead of the rest of us.
> > 
> > Like yourself, I have been most intrigued by all those stories that
> > you mentioned about the early Spanish colonizers, particularly more 
> so
> > when I realised that the Y haplogroup to which I belong to is not 
> the
> > typical Western European haplogroup but one that is, as I previously
> > said, very widespread all around the Mediterranean sea, including
> > North Africa, the Middle East, the Balcans and, of course, the 
> Iberian
> > Peninsula.
> > 
> > As I understand many of our group here have not studied this topic 
> in
> > detail, I felt compelled to point out a couple of facts that I 
> believe
> > could be helpful to all:
> > 
> > Ethnicity is not determined alone by your DNA haplogroup.  In other
> > words, having "X" haplogroup does not automatically place you in any
> > ethnic group, regardless of all those ancient stories.  If your
> > genealogical and historical research shows documented ancestral
> > evidence of certain ethnicity AND your genetic testing shows a
> > haplogroup correlated to the same ethnicity then you can start to
> > assume the possibility that your ancestors might have been indeed 
> such
> > and such ethnicity.
> > 
> > By the same token, physical phenotype (physical traits like eye, 
> hair
> > or skin color, etc.) is not dependent or necessarily correlated to
> > genetic haplogroup either.
> > 
> > Hope this helps. One important advice for all is not to jump to easy
> > conlusions right away.  ;)
> > 
> > Victor
> > 
> > 
> > --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" 
> <auntyemfaustus@h...>
> > wrote:
> > > Joseph,
> > > 
> > > That is so interesting about the DNA Project.   
> > > 
> > > I have talked with Mr. Greenspan (via e-mail), president of the
> > Family Tree DNA project, several times.  He is very nice.  He says 
> to
> > e-mail him any time.  He is a professor at the University of 
> Arizona.
> >  I had seen a story about a Hispanic priest in Albuquerque who now
> > wears both a cross and a Star of David, since the DNA project showed
> > not only that he was of Jewish heritage, but of the highest order, 
> the
> > Cohanim, direct descendants of Moses and his brother Aaron.  Mr.
> > Greenspan said that he started the project for Jews to find out what
> > Jewish groups they belong to (where in the hierarchy they fit).  The
> > highest is the Cohanim [priest], then there is the Levite [temple
> > servant], everybody else is Ysraelite.
> > > 
> > > I have heard many stories that many of our early 15th century
> > Spanish ancestors in Mexico were Sephardic Jews and Moors.  We are 
> not
> > related too much to the people that live in Spain now.  So Joseph, 
> you
> > are not really descended from an African slave, but maybe from 
> someone
> > with Moorish or Arab blood.  The Moors were the powers in Spain only
> > until shortly before the ancestors of the current Spaniards had 
> kicked
> > them and the Jews and Arabs out.  A Spanish friend from the Basque
> > country told me she was proud not to be "hija de moro ni de indio". 
> > (She can't help it- the Basques are very proud).   
> > > 
> > > I knew that my father's surname OLAGUE is Basque, because he told 
> me
> > so.  They were fair, with blue eyes.  People in Mexico have told us
> > that all Olagues descend from one Miguel Olague who together with 
> his
> > brothers went with the conquistador Don Juan de Onate to New Mexico 
> in
> > 1598.  They returned to Zacatecas shortly.  My maternal ancestors, 
> the
> > MARQUEZ, did stay and colonize New Mexico.  They were all Espanol
> > until my great-great grandfather's time.  Somehow a  Piro Indian got
> > in the family, thus he was dark, and on my mother's side the females
> > look Indian (go figure).   
> > > 
> > > In Gary Felix' website I read this:  "It is widely believed that a
> > large percentage of the earliest settlers of Mexico may have origins
> > in the Middle East  and were a result of the expulsion of
> > non-Christians out of Spain, just befoe the conquest of Mexico".  I
> > believe this, since when we first saw pictures of Saddam Hussein, we
> > yelled out "He looks just like Uncle Jess [my father's first cousin
> > Jesus, whose mother looked very Moorish or Arab]!    
> > > 
> > > The project has Garzas [Garcias] with family lines in Northern
> > Mexico [Jalisco?].  My husband was told in Mexico that he looked 
> like
> > a typical Norteno---quite tall and fair--a Tapatio--- and his
> > Garcia-Cervantes line is from Encarnacion de Diaz in Jalisco.
> > > 
> > > Gotta go---thunderstorm above--don't want to fry this computer.
> > > 
> > > Emilie Garcia
> > > Port Orchard, WA Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer 
> download
> > : http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>