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Mmmmm Since this subject started I've thought about
the Novela that I'm watching "Alborada" . . . The prestigious noble family
is Manrique y Arellano. So, this might be a dumb question but maybe the "Y" was
used for noble families such as: Counts, Dukes, etc.?
Great questions,
Emilie. I've often wondered about all that. From what I read, our
Spanish ancestors came here to either get away from persecution (Sephardic Jews)
or poverty. It seems this was an opportunity to better themselves, and
perhaps take on new identities. The French would utilize "de" to denote
nobility. I wonder if our ancestors also tried to appear as noble
too.
Irma
I too have been wondering about the use of surnames in Mexico. I
still don't understand what was meant when they used the "de" in front of the
surname. Did they mean to say they were from a certain place? Back in
the early 1700's in Zacatecas, I find that my Olagues used the "de
Olague". There is a town in the Basque region of Spain with that
name. However, I have no idea when that town was founded and if my
ancestors came from there. They were Basque, that I know.
Also, I find that many of my ancestors in Zacatecas used surnames
interchangeably. My Tinajeros used the surnames Felix, Flores or Suriano
often but there was not consistency (it would change from one generation to
another and then back again), and my Matas, Valdeses and Pereses used those
names interchangeably as did my Escovedo/de la Torre and Quijas/Berumen
lines. Could it be that since only a handful of surnames were used in each
community, that the people there were confused as to what their surnames
were? Were they intimidated into using some surnames over others?
Was it more prestigious or convenient to use certain surnames? This has
all made it very difficult to find all the siblings in one family because they
used different combinations of surnames at each baptism.
This puts me in mind of what Anglos have done to preseve their more
prestigious names. The Cabot-Lodges were really Lodges who used their
mother's surname as a middle name ("the Lodges talk only to the Cabots, and the
Cabots talk only to God"), versus using that name as the second surname as is
done in Mexico. I notice that those who are related to the Kennedys
through their mothers use the Kennedy name as a middle name. They consider
themselves Kennedys. Also, Jacqueline Lee Bouvier Kennedy always used the
middle name Lee to denote she was a "Lee" from Virginia ("Lee" being a very
prestigious name-- as in Robert E. Lee--, more so than Kennedy).
One thing I have not found (perhaps because I have not gone back far
enough) is the use of the "y". I do find (when browsing the census files
that Puerto Ricans use the "y". Is it that people from a certain
place in Spain used "de" or "y" and their descendents in the New World continued
the same practice? Why do people in Puerto Rico still do that? I
notice that in Mexico two surnames are always used, but they eliminate the
"y".
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:45
AM
Subject: [ranchos] Re: double
surnames
Linda:
I got some persepective on this issue from
Mssrs. de la Torre Berumen
and Valdes Salazar while I was down in
Mexico.
Apparently, soon after the Mexican independence, President
Vicente
Guerrero (who was mulatto) decreed that all Spaniards be expelled
from
Mexico. In reality, many were exempted but certainly all of
those who
had been loyalists during the war of independence and those that
had
royal ties (since Mexico was now a republic) were
expelled.
Those Spanish families that remained became weary of being
labeled
Spanish and particularly loyalists or royalists and thus those
with "composed names" such as "Carlos y Godoy" or "Fernandez de Jara
Quemada" quickly dropped parts of their names to mexicanize them. I
think it was somewhat arbitrary which parts they dropped.
On a
similar note, I would appreciate hearing any perspectives people
may have
about how children chose whether to take on the mother's
family name vs.
the father's family name. I have run across many
instances,
particularly in the 17th century where children of the same
family took on
different names, i.e. some siblings took on the father's
name
"Covarrubias" and other siblings in the same family took on the
mother's
name "De La O" so you have siblings with different last names.
--- In
ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
<longsjourney@y...>
wrote:
>
> I'm hoping you can help me with double surnames.
Is there a
> difference when they use De or Y? Such as Alvares del
Castillo or
> Ochoa y Garibay? How long did they usually keep the
double surname?
> I haven't found a reason why some families
ended up using the surname
> they chose.. Villasenor y Jaso, some went
Villasenor and others went
> Jaso.. same family!
>
> I
have gone from records in Tamazula Jalisco to Chilchota Michoacan.
> So many families from that part of Jalisco came from this area of
> Michoacan in the later 1700's. In doing marriage records from
there
> I'm finding it not unusual to have the actual marriage in the
home of
> a family member, was that normal for the mid 1750's?
>
Linda in Everett
>
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