Re: Margarita's rememberance of Jerez, Zacatecas

["Steve G. Apodaca" <sgapodaca@...>]

El dia de los muertos is celebrated differently, depending on the 
region of Mexico where you are at. My family, and the people I know 
in Zacoalco and Guadalajara, visit their dead loved ones on November 
2 each year. I remember that when I was a kid they took me several 
times to my grandfather's grave, and I remember that after a short 
prayer, my dad used to talk directly to my grandfather, staring at 
his grave, just like if he was having a conversation with him. I am 
used to this, but maybe someone may think it is weird. Anyways, 
after "talking" with my grandfather, we always cut some sugar cane 
from a plantation inside the cemetery and ate the sticks on the way 
back home.

I did not learn about altars for the dead until I came to the United 
States. In Jalisco, I never saw one, I guess it is not a tradition 
in the state. In California, I found out that those who put the 
altars were mostly people from Michoacan. Down there, they really 
have a big celebration for November 2. The one that comes to my mind 
is the one in the island of Janitzio, right in the middle of the 
Lago de Patzcuaro in Michoacan. At night, the cemetery is full of 
people. There are lots of candles, flowers, everybody is talking, 
playing their guitars, singing, and having a good time in general.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Erlinda Castanon-Long 
<longsjourney@y...> wrote:
> Hi Irma, 
> I had never heard of Dia de los Muertos either!  My paternal 
family (Zacatecas) and my maternal family (Jalisco)  didn't observe 
it at all, I saw it on television and asked my 84 year old father 
and he said they didn't do that in Jerez.. I'm assuming the custom 
came more from the Indeginous side of our heritage?  Burial customs 
vary so much from culture to culture. 
>  
>  My mother died many years ago but purchased a burial site in 
Stockton Ca. that has one plot on top of another. My father calls it 
a 'condo' and doesn't like the idea of being buried on top of her!   
I do find it very interesting that the Mexican culture which holds 
it's elders in such high esteem does not like to "visit" them once 
they die?  Maybe the fact that they have to bury their loved ones 
themselves, even preparing them for burial, digging the hole and 
dropping them into it makes the difference.  Here stateside we 
sanitize it and only have to show up for the services.  Strangers do 
the rest for us, keeps it clean, neat and detached.. Curious how 
customs are established.
> Linda
> 
> Irma GomezLucero <igomezlucero@c...> wrote:
> I envy you Linda.  I tried to get my dad and family in Mexico to 
take me to the cemetery where my grandmother was buried.  My dad 
interrupted and refused to take me there.  His response was, "Why do 
you want to go to a place where everyone is dead when you have all 
of these live relatives?"  Okay how do you respond when your "live" 
relatives are staring at you.  Enjoying history, I have 
always "enjoyed" going to cemeteries because there is so much 
history there.  No, I don't like funerals though.  Next time I will 
go on my own even if I have to walk there.
> Along the same vein...  a few years ago, I was asked to do a 
cultural presentation of sorts to my daughter's class around 
Halloween.  I decided to build "un altar" for El Dia de los 
Muertos.  When I asked my parents about this custom, they said, " We 
don't do that.   Once we bury our dead, we go to church have Masses 
said for them, pray for them, but we don't hang out at cemeteries."  
I actually had to do research on the custom which more a combination 
of Indigenous beliefs coupled with Catholocism.  I felt this was a 
wonderful way to honor your family which has passed away.  I built 
an "altar" to my grandparents.  I had my daughter explain what every 
item meant to my grandparents.  Her classmates were surprised to 
find out that she had never met my abuelitos.  My goal was to remind 
these children to talk to their grandparents, ask them questions 
about themselves, etc., before it was too late.  It was an awsome 
experience for all.
> Tonight I will see my folks, and plan to ask them more about 
cemeteries in Mexico.  I didn't know they buried individuals on top 
of others.  Yep, I have more homework to do before I visit the 
cemeteries in Mexico. 
> Irma
>  
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> From: Erlinda Castanon-Long [mailto:longsjourney@y...] 
> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 10:13 AM
> To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [ranchos] Margarita's rememberance of Jerez, Zacatecas
> 
> 
> 
> The whole idea of death in the District of Jerez is different than 
here stateside.  I wanted to visit all the cemeteries I'd found in 
the research records.  Our host could not understand my desire to go 
to cemeteries, he said the past was the past!  He did take us to the 
cemetery in Los Aros/Los Haros, I found all the names I have been 
researching clear back to the 1750's.  One could almost feel the 
ancestors... I also went to the cemetery in El Durazno.  They 
absolutely refused to take me to Panteon de los Dolores in Jerez, 
they said enough was enough...
>  
>  I did notice in Jerez that coffins are sold in shops that display 
them in the window, that was kinda shocking to me. They said when 
someone dies they have to be buried within 24 hours since they don't 
embalm.  In El Durazno they have the "viewing" in the home then go 
to the church for the service and then carry the coffin on their 
shoulders,complete with Mariachi's if they can afford them, and walk 
the 1/2 mile to the cemetery in a procession.  I found lots of huge 
marble monuments but all cemeteries were badly neglected because 
they don't like to go their unless it's to bury someone.. they do 
not go to visit and pay respects. Everyone in El Durazno paid for 
the land for a cemetery 20 years ago and when a family member  dies 
they are "prepaid" for burial.
>  
> The burial practices were different in the old days too.  They 
would put up to 5 people in each grave, removing the bones to the 
foot of the grave and then putting the new 'box' as it was described 
to me... I was standing over a neglected Alcala grave and noticed 
something round so I bent over to pick it up, turned out to be a leg 
bone much to my surprise.. After getting over the shock I moved some 
dirt, reburied the bone and said a prayer for the ancestors and me!
> I would highly recommend visiting an ancestral homesite if it's 
ever possible, it's very humbling and highly emotional to walk the 
ground your ancestors lived on.
> Linda
> 
> zendean <usa20@e...> wrote:
> Margarita;
>     My great grandfather and ggmother were from Jerez, Zacatecas. 
I wonder, 
> is it a big town ? Francisco Macias and his wife Leonarda Ramirez 
are and 
> have always been a mystery to me. My Aunt told me that they 
visited them in 
> Zacatecas when they were little and that the Macias's lived on a 
farm there.
>     I wonder if you know some one that is there now that I can 
correspond 
> with to ask about them.
> 
> Jose Macias
> usa20@e...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Margarita Vallazza" <TeaCozyGran@k...>
> To: <ranchos@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 8:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [ranchos] FOOD:Mole/Pipian/Genealogy
> 
> 
> > My dad's mother was from Jerez, Zacatecas, and she died just 
before my
> > sixth birthday so I don't have a lot of mem! ories of her but 
here's one
> > or two:
> >
> > I remember her fixing something called atole, which I didn't 
like, but
> > remembering it from a fog of some years' distance, I would say 
it's a
> > healthy drink.  She also had prunes in her oatmeal, so when I'd 
pop in
> > to visit her in the morning and she had some, I'd be served a 
dish of
> > it and enjoy it.  I liked it better than my mother's porridge 
(which I
> > realize now was a true Scots dish).  At special times, don't 
know what
> > they were, Abuelita would have capirotada, which I didn't like 
too
> > well.  Remember, I was just a kid!:)
> >
> > I'll have to think about some more food...some of it was just 
the food
> > from northern Mexico that my grandfather liked--he was from 
Chihuahua
> > city.
> >
> > I wish I had had the blessing of more time with my grandmother, 
maybe I
> > would have learned things about her family in Zacatecas.&n! bsp; 
I believe
> > even she didn't know a lot about her family history and I say 
that
> > because my Tias, dad's sisters, don't know much about their 
mother's
> > life in Zacatecas.  I'm the one who told my Tia Carmen that my 
abuelita
> > had a full sister named Paula, a full brother named Jose (who 
died in
> > 1919)  and 2 half-sisters and a half-brother...they never knew!  
People
> > in the old country NEVER discussed anything private.  Marge:)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
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