Navigate Messages: by Date - in Thread
Main Index - Date Index - Thread Index
 

Re: [ranchos] "hija natural" vs added name of man-general question

 
To add to Victor's comments: I saw a baptismal record in which the body of the form did not include the biological father's name.  The child was identified as "natural".  At the end of the record I saw a sentence in which someone (presumably) the priest wrote that so-and-so had admitted to being the father of the child.  Human nature is frail at times and many rules are seriously bent.  I have also read that priests were very scarce in many of the mission areas.  The priest could show up to marry and baptize once or twice a year.  ometimes once in two or three years.  The absence of a priest did not prevent couples from joining their lives and bearing children.  Thus since the church did not wish to upset people it developed the term "hijo/a natural".  These children were not considered illegitimate although in many church records you will find entries testifying that a father accepted a child as legitimate.  This made it possible for the hijo natural to enjoy whatever inheritance without losing a legal challenge.

My memories of my language studies are that the "Y" was not necessarily a capital letter.  Rather it was the "Greek i" ( i griega).  This letter was used whenever the sound of "i" appeared first in a word.  For example there is no syntactical requisite to capitalize the first letter of the word "indio".  In that case the Greek i was used but not as a capital letter.  Every 50 years or so the Royal Academy of the Spanish language would write new rules to regulate the language.  The scholars were apparently obsessed with the "right" way of dojing things.  Communication was so slow in the past that it might take several generations for a mandated change to actually become common practice.  

Names are very deceptive.  I have met young men (a student of mine last year) whose name is Jose Dolores.  This is an example of a longer name being shortened.  The full name would have been (centuries ago) "Jose Maria de los Dolores".  Another example is that of Maria de Jesus de la Encarnacion.  I have seen men with the name of "Encarnacion" because after a century or so it was shortened.  If you are at all familiar with the rites of the catholic church you have seen very many titles for Mary.  Each one of these can be a name for a female.  Simply write "Jose" in front and you have a man's name.  Whatever the rules we may discover remember that human error plays a role in all record-keeping.  I have read letters from the Archbishop of Durango in which he chews out the parish priests for not following the rules of form in keeping the church's documents.  He even threatened them with fines.  I hope this sheds a little light on your questions.  These are little things I have learned during the years I have done my own extractions.

David


-----Original Message-----
From: zendean <usa20@...>
Sent: Jun 23, 2005 3:26 PM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] "hija natural" vs added name of man-general question

<html><body>


<tt>
 <BR>
Fellow searchers;<BR>
&nbsp; I have encountered some thing strange in my extraction film. I know that &quot;hija natural&quot; means that the child has no father. But at times there is an man's name written in below the child's name in the bapised child list, but not in body of the narrative where the names of the parents is listed. In your experience, does this mean that the father was named , but does not acknowledge that child ? Additionally, I sometimes find names for the father listed as &quot;Dolores&quot; or &quot;Maria Isvaldo&quot; or &quot;Yldlesterialde Isabel&quot;. Is that a name for a man ? I have never met a man named Dolores but at times a woman is named Juan Jesus. Is there a better formula than if the name ends in &quot;o&quot;= boy or &quot;a&quot;=girl ? The child is either &quot;Hija&quot; or Hijo&quot;. the times that I have trouble is when the name is not clear and the parish father puts &quot;hn&quot; or &quot;hl&quot;, in those cases I can't tell the gender.&nbsp; <BR>
Also, at times the parent is listed as &quot;Jesus Montenegro or Juan Eliso Montenegro&quot;. Do you know if that may be the name of a father who took the baby to be baptised and didn't name the mother ?&nbsp; <BR>
 Also, Some fathers write Ysabel and Ysidro . I wonder if a Capital &quot;I&quot; was written to look like&nbsp; a &quot;Y&quot; when is&nbsp; a capital in script/caligraphy or if it spelled that way in Gualtamala.&nbsp; Just asking my friends here in the site.<BR>
<BR>
Thank you,<BR>
<BR>
Jose Luis macias<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Victor Villarreal &lt;vela_este@...&gt;<BR>
Sent: Jun 22, 2005 8:11 AM<BR>
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com<BR>
Subject: [ranchos] Re: Question mark<BR>
<BR>
Hello John,<BR>
<BR>
Try the following instructions: <BR>
<BR>
&quot;Click Start, Settings, Control Panel, Regional and<BR>
Language Options. Click the Language(s) tab. In Win<BR>
XP, click Details, then Add. Choose an Input language<BR>
(English United States) and a Keyboard Layout<BR>
(International English). Use Apply to finish the<BR>
process; the Windows installation CD may be needed.&quot;<BR>
<BR>
Read the instructions on how to switch or select keyboard layouts.&nbsp; <BR>
You can select also which one you prefer as the default layout.<BR>
<BR>
Let us know if you need any other help!<BR>
<BR>
Victor<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, &quot;John Gonzalez&quot; &lt;1gnzlz@v...&gt; wrote:<BR>
&gt; Hi:<BR>
&gt; <BR>
&gt; I don't know what version of Windows other people are using.&nbsp; I am <BR>
using Windows XP Home Edition and when I press the Alt+? I get <BR>
nothing, just a pleasent little sound. I tried both Alt keys.<BR>
&gt; I am sticking with Alt+168, it hasn't failed me yet!&nbsp; As far as the <BR>
exclamation symbol is concerned, I just do it the old fashion way: <BR>
Shift +1. <BR>
&gt; <BR>
&gt; <BR>
&gt; John Gonzalez&nbsp; <BR>
&gt; 1gnzlz@v...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
Yahoo! Groups Links<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>




<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

<br>
<tt><hr width="500">
<b>Yahoo! Groups Links</b><br>
<ul>
<li>To visit your group on the web, go to:<br><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/</a><br>&nbsp;
<li>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<br><a href="mailto:ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe";>ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a><br>&nbsp;
<li>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/";>Yahoo! Terms of Service</a>.
</ul>
</tt>
</br>

<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->


</body></html>




David P. Delgado