RE: [ranchos] Confirmaciones

[Smiley <smileysway2@...>]

...Irma...you were confirmed at a very beautiful church!  I remember the 1st time I went to Mexico to meet the future inlaws.  They lived in Lagos de Moreno but were going to go to Guadalajara to pick up my MIL's Mother, so she could go to church.

 

I was dumb and kinda naive at that time, as I did not pay much attention to distance.  I was only the driver.  Here we head out west on 80, and the next thing I really noticed was all these people walking along the road.  Mind you it was about 4:30 in the morning, and no, I did not pay attention to the time.  All I know is that there are lots of people walking along the side of the road and at times in the road. I was thinking these poor people must have to go along ways to get to there jobs.

 

Finally when I almost hit 3 men for crawling on their kness in the road, as I almost didn't see them, did my future husband explain to me where and why they were on the road.  He then proceeded to explain to me that this was done on each year as the people made their pilgrimage to San Juan de Los Lagos.  Nedless to say, this is where my MIL's Mother was going to church but she needed a rife, as none of her sons in Guadalajara would give her a ride.  They felt she should be satisfied with going to church there.

 

Like I said, my MIL takes her religion very seriously.  I was given all kinds of lessons on the way to Guadalajara...what a long ride & even longer lesson. (smile)  Like I also said, I love to learn about new things.  I look forward to learning many things from all of you, both more experienced and that not-so-experienced.  I have always believed one can learn something from everybody, no matter their age.  I thank you Irma, for sharing your experience with us.  I think I am going to like it just fine on this site...

 

 

Smiley

 

...PS...Joseph, thanks for inviting me once again!

 

...always searching for family!!!

Irma GomezLucero <igomezlucero@...> wrote:

I honestly take no offense.  I only have my recollections, my parents, and local American priest as my resource.  I was confirmed at the old ripe age of 16 in San Juan de los Lagos, Jal.  Why so late you ask?  This was due to my dad taking me out of CCD classes in 7th grade in the US.  Yes, one of his many whims.  :)  Confirmations in the US at that time were normally done in 8th Grade (13 years). 

 

My church--(I am a practicing Catholic) will have the individual receive this sacrament when they are ready after 7 years of age--of course after Baptism.  My daughter just received Confirmation this past November at her request.  She is 12 years old.  We attended a series of classes, and it was explained to us that Confirmation used to take place at 1-2, etc., --essentially what I said in an earlier email. 

 

Anyway getting back to my experience of receiving Confirmation in San Juan.  The Bishop actually passed me up because he thought that I was a Godmother.  I was surrounded by 1-2 year olds.  I also wouldn't call it a "slap."  It was a pat.  This was in the mid-1970's.  In my daughter's case, the Bishop only touched her cheek with his hand, and smiled. 

P.S. I didn't get a smile during mine!!

 

I have experienced the same as Maria in researching Baptisms where the child was expuesto at so-and-so's house, and baptized by so-and-so, etc.,  If I get a chance tonight, I will get an example from the late 1700's in San Miguel el Alto, Jal. and send it to the group.   Maybe this is different from Smiley's expuestos.  I don't know...

 

I have also enjoyed hearing other's experiences, and value them greatly. 

Irma :)

---

From: Smiley [mailto:smileysway2@...]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:54 PM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Confirmaciones

...Steve...my husband remembers his to, but he was slapped hard so I guess that tells you how my husband had behaved growing up...:))  This has been a great topic and learning from everyone.  Thank you for sharing yours...

 

Smiley

"Steve G. Apodaca" <sgapodaca@...> wrote:

Hola Chris

Well I was raised Catholic in Mexico. I got my confirmation when I
was 13 or 14, I do not remember exactly. The same thing happened to
my brother who is 3 years older. However, my oldest brothers and
sisters, as well as my parents, were confirmed on their childhood
soon after they were born. Once, I asked my grandma why I did not
have my confirmation when I was baptized, and she told me that in the
past, it was a common practice to confirm children before their
second birthday; however, some priests adviced the parents no to get
the confirmation at that age and wait until the child was 13 years
old, so that he/she could be able to understand the real meaning of
confirmation. I remember that I had to go to saturday classes to
prepare for my first communion for a couple years, and an extra year
of classes! to get my confirmation.

After that year of studying, I received my confirmation from the
bishop of Ciudad Guzman who put some oil on my forehead and then
slapped me on the face. :) For those who are not familiar with some
catholic traditions, this might sound like abuse, but normally, when
receiving the confirmation at 13, the bishop (not the parish priest,
but the actual bishop) puts some oil on his thumb, then he puts it on
the forehead of the person, gives him the sign of the cross, and then
he gives them a small slap, according to how he thinks the kid has
behaved in the past 13 years. Mine did not really hurt, it kind of
had a paternal touch, but some of my friends received good slaps!



--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Chris Pineda <pineda37@y...> wrote:
> I appreciate all the help people have given me on my
> questions.
>
> In regard to the 'Expuestos" question, I did notice
> that! what followed the 'Expuestos' heading were a
> series of names without last names or parental
> information (unlike the regular baptism records). So
> the notion that these children were abandoned makes
> sense. This was for baptism records in the 1850s for
> Monterrey, Nuevo Leon.
>
> As for the Confirmations question, the timeframe I was
> looking was for in the Tlaltenango records was 1895 or
> so, so if I find anything I'll be sure to let you
> know.
>
> Again, I really appreciate all the emails.
>
> Chris Pineda
>
> --- readysetgo95814 <nena@a...> wrote:
>
> >
> > No offense taken.  We are all here to leearn and
> > benefit from each
> > other's experiences.  I myself was born in
> > Guadalajara and I was
> > confirmed shortly after I was baptized. Within a
> > year of my
> > baptism.  So was everyone I knew. I think Chris'
> > question was
> > related to an ancestor so I answered it according to
> > the timeframe
> > Chris was referring to (1800's or so) for a
> > gggreat-grandfather.
> >
> > The records I have examined for expuestos are pretty
> > clear in the
> > language they use that the child was abandoned.
> > They list no
> > parents' names and the child is not given a surname.
> >  They are also
> > very specific as to the location where the child was
> > left.  Such as,
> > being left on the doorstep of Don Ygnacio Sánchez.
> > They also say
> > the child is being baptized, not just blessed.
> > Thus, you find them
> > in the baptismal books, as Chris did.
> >
> > I also do not profess to be an authority on the
> > subject, but only
> > speak from my own limited experience.
> >
> > Maria
> >
> > --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Smiley
> > <smileysway2@y...> wrote:
> > > ...I'm not going to beg to differ with anyone, as
> > I am NOT an
> > authority on this subject. I spoke in more detail
> > with my MIL and
> > she said that the child is baptized when they are
> > under 1 year old,
> > then at the age of 3 or later, they are then
> > confirmed.  The
> > timeframe depends on the parents.  If the child has
> > NOT been
> > presented to the church before this time, then
> > anyone can present
> > the child to the Father to have that child blessed
> > (expuesto).  My
> > MIL was born & raised in Mexico and up until a few
> > years ago, lived
> > th! ere her whole life.  I did not mean to upset
> > anyone with my reply
> > so if I did, I apologize...
> > > 
> > > Smiley
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > > Irma GomezLucero <igomezlucero@c...> wrote:
> > > I'm with Maria on this.  Confirmations in Mexico
> > take place at
> > about 2 years old after the Baptism has been
> > received. 
> > > 
> > > In the USA, Confirmations take place or should I
> > say used to take
> > place around 12-13 years of age when a child was old
> > of enough
> > to "Confirm" that they wanted to be a member of the
> > church--This has
> > changed quite recently to as early as 7 years of
> > age.   
> > &ggt; 
> > > Not so in Mexico--this  sacrament is usually> > received at the age
> > of 2. 
> > > 
> > > Expuesto means the child was left or abandoned on
> > someone's
> > doorstep with parents unknown. 
> > > 
> > > Irma
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > From: Smiley [mailto:smileysway2@y...]
> > > Sent: Monday, Appril 18, 2005 6:09 AM
> > > To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: Question about
> > Confirmations, and
> > Expuestos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ...baptisms usually happen within the 1st year of
> > a child's life;
> > and the confirmations happen when they turn 12-13
> > years of age; and
> > as far as "expuestos", my mother in law (who is a
> > devout Catholic)
> >! ; states this is a word used when the child has NOT
> > been confirmed. 
> > They are outside of the church, or possibly going to
> > another church
> > or have moved out of the area.  I hope this helps
> > you out Chris...
> > > 
> > > Smiley
> > > 
> > >
> > > readysetgo95814 <nena@a...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Chris,
> > >
> > > Confirmations usually occurred within the first
> > year of the
> > child's
> > > life.  Shortly after baptism.
> > >
> > > Expuestos means children who were abandoned in
> > front of somebody's
> > > doorstep.  Sometimes it was a church, often times
> > it was a private
> > > residence.
> > >
> > > Maria
> > >
> > &! gt; --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Chris Pineda
> > <pineda37@y...> wrote:
> > > > Hey all,
> > > >
> > > > I was hoping for some quick guidance. I
> > requested and
> > > > received the baptism microfilm to determine the
> > names
> > > > of the parents of my great-grandfather Nicanor
> > Pineda,
> > > > born in Tlaltenango.  
> > > >
> > > > The problem is that this is the second time,
> > where I
> > > > haven't found him for the timeframe in which he
> > was
> > > > born.  This has led me to believe that perhaps
> > he was
> > > > born in some other city around Tlal! tenango and
> > later
> > > > moved there.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I'm requesting the marriage records for> > the
> > > > timeframe I think he was later married in
> > Tlaltenango.
> > > >  But I was also thinking that I could request
> > the
> > > > Confirmation records but I really have no idea
> > when
> > > > this usually takes place in someone's life -- I
> > was
> > > > not raised Catholic.
> > > >
> > > > On another nnote, I've noticed a page after each
> > year
> > > > of baptism records that says "Expuestos"
> > followed by a
> > > > series of names.  Does anyone know what this
> > means?
> > > >
> > > > Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Chris Pineda
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >            
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