Re: [ranchos] Re: Bautismos de Hijos Legitimos

[Alberto Duarte <albertodua@...>]

No. But I'm planning to research my ancestors from
Panuco this month.  If I do find any Zaldivars, I'll
let you know.

Albert Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- Margarita Vallazza <TeaCozyGran@...> wrote:

> Do you have any Zaldivars in your Panuco ancestry? 
> Marge:)
> On Nov 7, 2005, at 5:45 PM, Alberto Duarte wrote:
> 
> >
> >  How do you expect Americans to know the history
> of
> >  another country or group when they know very
> little
> >  about their own history?  If you don't believe
> me,
> >  just ask them. 
> >
> >  Emile, you are doing way better than me.  I can
> only
> >  trace my ancestors back to 1675 in Panuco,
> Zacatecas.
> >
> >  Alberto Duarte Prieto
> >  Santa Maria, California
> >
> >  --- Emilie Garcia <auntyemfaustus@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >  > Yes, Arturo,
> >  >
> >  > It is so frustrating to know that Anglos here
> don't
> >  > have a clue about our history.  They are
> amazed when
> >  > I request records for 1640, or mention that I
> just
> >  > downloaded a census for 1650, for example. 
> They say
> >  > "They have records in Mexico that go back that
> >  > far?--Who wrote them?"Â  (they have no clue as
> to how
> >  > literate and educated the priests and notaries
> >  > public were).  I tell them that I can trace
> some
> >  > ancestors to 1543 (in Panuco, Zacatecas).  I
> just
> >  > can't trace all the lines back that far and
> there
> >  > are such huge gaps sometimes due to the
> upheavals
> >  > caused in the founding of a nation and opening
> up of
> >  > frontiers and the passage of time.  I tell
> them that
> >  > Jerez where my father was born is on the
> National
> >  > Register of Historical Places in Mexico as a
> >  > well-preserved Spanish Colonial city founded in
> the
> >  > early 1500s.  They think their 1620
> settlements in
> >  > Massachusetts are the oldest in the Americas. I
> >  > don't even think they realize how far back our
> >  > pre-Colombian history goes, how complex and
> advanced
> >  > the civilization was for the time.  My sister
> (born
> >  > in Colorado as I was) once was told by her boss
> at
> >  > work, "Well, Alicia, now that you have adopted
> this
> >  > country as your own----".  My sister, aware of
> our
> >  > mother's heritage in New Mexico since the
> 1500's,
> >  > blew up at him and told him, "My people had
> been
> >  > here for hundreds of years when your people
> were
> >  > still back in Ireland digging up potatoes!"Â  I
> just
> >  > cannot fathom the arrogance and pride of such
> >  > ignoramuses.  They think their ancestors were
> the
> >  > only explorers and settlers, etc.
> >  >
> >  > The folks at the local FHC seem interested when
> I
> >  > tell them what I find, such as whole families
> at
> >  > haciendas wiped out at once by the Indians
> (they
> >  > think such things only happened in their Old
> West),
> >  > or that a church bell was dedicated in the
> 1600's
> >  > but had been manufactured in Spain in the
> 1500's,
> >  > etc.  My husband was amazed when I told him
> that I
> >  > found a record for a 9 year old Indian boy
> whose
> >  > god-parents had "bought" him.  I also find
> that some
> >  > men used their mother's surname and never their
> >  > father's (making it such fun to trace), yet
> both
> >  > parents are listed on the baptismal record, and
> of
> >  > course the Indians were given only first names
> as
> >  > were the Negro slaves in the American South.
> >  >
> >  > Emilie Garcia
> >  > Port Orchard, WA ----
> >  >Â Â  ----- Original Message -----
> >  >Â Â  From: Arturo
> >  > Ramos<mailto:arturo.ramos2@...>
> >  >Â Â  To:
> >  >
> > 
>
ranchos@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com>
> >  >
> >  >Â Â  Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:10 PM
> >  >Â Â  Subject: [ranchos] Re: Bautismos de Hijos
> >  > Legitimos
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >   You know that's right Elvira.  I talk to
> the
> >  > Nordic people at my
> >  >Â Â  family history center and they cannot
> believe that
> >  > there are even
> >  >Â Â  records for Mexico in the 1700s let alone
> records
> >  > that list maternal
> >  >Â Â  and paternal names up to the
> grandparents... along
> >  > with race/caste,
> >  >   etc.  As wrong as the motives may have
> been for
> >  > maintaining all of
> >  >Â Â  this information... knowledge=control and
> the
> >  > maintainance of
> >  >Â Â  information like this was obviously meant
> to
> >  > categorize and keep
> >  >   people in their place.  Nevertheless this
> >  > information gives us a
> >  >Â Â  beautiful window into the lives of our
> ancestors.
> >  >
> >  >Â Â  Emilie: Neither my father nor I have been
> able to
> >  > locate my
> >  >Â Â  grandfather's birth certificate... either
> at the
> >  > civil registry in
> >  >Â Â  the town where he was born nor in
> Gudadalajara.  I
> >  > think there were a
> >  >Â Â  lot of records lost just before the
> revolution.
> >  > The government in
> >  >Â Â  Mexico was very weak and then a lot of
> records
> >  > were destroyed.  We
> >  >Â Â  are lucky we have been able to find his
> baptismal
> >  > records.
> >  >
> >  >Â Â  I have a similar issue in my father's
> lineage much
> >  > further back.  I
> >  >Â Â  have a gggg grandfather who was an
> "expuesto" and
> >  > whose background I
> >  >   cannot confirm.  Even if his adoptive
> father is
> >  > his illegitimate
> >  >Â Â  father, two generations futher back there
> is an
> >  > illegimate child's
> >  >Â Â  birth whose baptismal records do not appear
> in
> >  > Mazapil, where he
> >  >   claims to have been born.  Somewhat
> frustrating.
> >  >
> >  >Â Â  There is a book by Thomas Calvo called la
> Nueva
> >  > Galicia en los siglos
> >  >   XVI y XVII.  It is a pretty rigorous
> ethnologic
> >  > study based on census
> >  >Â Â  and baptismal registry data that shows that
> nearly
> >  > 40% of children
> >  >Â Â  born in Nueva Galicia at the end of the XVI
> >  > century were illegitimate
> >  >Â Â  and that family name transmittal was not
> very
> >  > common in the area at
> 
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