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Hi everyone! I feel like I am coming in late into
this conversation, nevertheless, here's my 2-bit
contribution.
I agree with Ed. I just received
more results from my DNA research. My Indian branch, which has thought of
themselves as Indians (Tlaxcalans) have just received their dna
results which
indicate that they descend from a male line in northwest Europe (more closely
related to the Vikings than the Spanish). It is haplpogroup I1a.
Everybody is surprised (including one
of my doctor cousins who simply refuses to acknowledge the truth, never mind we
the tests were run more than once on more than one individyal, by more than
one company). It turns out that there is no memory in the family of anyone being
Spanish on that side. For the last 300+ years, no one has said that they
were mestizos, only Indian was mentioned on that male line. In fact, we even
have stories about their fights with the Spanish and how they finally joined the
Spanish. There are some peculiar things there but that is besides the
point. So, I guess it back to the drawing board.
So, everyone is dealing with the new
information which has just shattered their identity. I don't have a
problem with it because I know the family spent some time in Zacatecas in the
areas considered mestizo and were citadinos before moving to Zacatecas.
Now, on my mother's side, she's
descended from the Lopez and Escobedos and I have always heard from the family
on that side that the early people from Jerez and Fresnillo were all Judios
(Conversos) or that all were related to them. So far, I have not pursued
that, except that I suspect there must be some truth to it because of some
things I have seen. So far ,I have run into only two persons who had the
same stories I had (not related to me) and were fro Fresnillo, but lost contact
with them in California. Their families denied this in public but
discussed it in private.
So much for "purity" of the family blood line. Mind
you, this was before the documented Chinese, French, Italians, Spanish and
assorted family mutts (never mind all the Indian tribes the Zavalas have narried
into!). I tell everyone that I am not only "capirotada de la buena" but
that I am also "100 percent pure Mexican mutt".
A comment about "purity":
When I read or hear about "gente que se le suben
los humos" about the "sangre limpia" of the "Spaniards" I always get a pain
on my side from the laughter. I just had that converstion at the
University I attended with a lady from Gomez Palacio, Durango, who evidently is
not familiar witht the history of Mexico.
This is the same as saying "Español puro". I
remember when I went to school in Mexico and was handed a long list of
words of Arabic, Greek and Egyptian origin and told that they were now
Spanish, that I should memorize their origins. If I remember correctly, that
used to happen in the second or third grade. I don't know about you guys
(Bakersfield shades),but I still sleep on my almohada, y me curo con
alcohol.
By the way, Joseph, one of my families was named
Puente (not Puentes) and it somehow also changed to Puentes, also from
Zacatecas.
Elvira
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@y...>
wrote:
>
> Joseph,
>
> A 3 step mutation near match
with someone from a different
> geographical region and with a different
surname is quite a loooong
> distance. As we say in Spanish:
"Una golondrina no hace verano."
>
> This is most likely a case of
haplotype convergence and not indicative
> of a real genetic
affinity.
Joseph,
Given the multi-cultural basis (Spanish,
African, and Native-American Indian) of the
Mexican people and the super
multi-cultural basis (Cro-Magnon, Phoenician, Greek,
Celtic, Basque, Roman,
Visigoth, Jewish, North African Berber, Arab, etc.) of the Iberian
peninsula
people, you can probably call yourself anything you wish and probably be
correct.
Furthermore, you can see that the "sangre limpia" of the
"Spaniards" was cr-p.
Scientifically and with respect to your Y-DNA,
however, I agree with Victor. Your Y-DNA is
Celtic, for lack of a better
definition. Stay tuned. The Y-DNA definitions and associations
will
undoubtedly change, just like the borders of every country that has ever
existed.
Shalom (aka, "peace", goodbye),
Ed
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