José Rafael Torres & Ma. Trinidad Márquez

[Pacorro73@...]

Hi Joseph,

Did you know that certain marriage abstracts in the IGI contain the names of the bride and groom's parents?  Well your pentabuelos marriage record of them in the IGI does.  It appears that they were married in a place called Santa María de los Angeles, Jalisco.  Heard of it?  Here is their marriage abstract from the IGI.

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
  Mexico
Search Results  | Download | Pedigree


JOSE RAFAEL TORRES
  Male   Family

Parents:
  Father:  PEDRO TORRES Family
  Mother:  MARIA JOSEFA RAMIRES  

Marriages:
  Spouse:  MARIA TRINIDAD MARQUEZ Family
  Marriage:  08 JUL 1829   Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico

Parents:
  Father:        JUAN CLIMACO MARQUEZ Family
  Mother:  MARIA EULOGIA LUERA  

Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Source Information:
Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.:  Type:  Printout Call No.:  Type: 

M611046  1785 - 1885  1158281   Film  NONE 

© 1999-2002 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc.  All rights reserved.  English approval: 3/1999
Use of this site constitutes your acceptance of these Conditions of Use (last updated: 3/22/1999).
Privacy Policy (last updated: 10/12/2001).    28    http://www.familysearch.org   v.2.5.0
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#

It is then possible to continue checking for children of the parents of your pentabuelos.  Now you know that the parents of José Rafael Torres were Pedro Torres and Ma. Josefa Ramírez, and the parents of Ma. Trinidad Márquez were José Climaco Márquez and María Eulogia Luera.  This Luera must me a misspelling.  Never heard of it.  The surname should be Loera.

I checked the Torres couple and did in fact find many several other siblings of José Rafael.  Notice I searched twice, altering the mother's name from María to Josefa.

You searched for: Any Event, 1825 - 1865, Mexico
Father: Pedro Torres, Mother: Maria Ramirez
Exact Spelling: Off

[refine search]
Prepare selected records for download
International Genealogical Index / Mexico - 18
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. MARIA HOMOBONO TORRES - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 25 NOV 1835 Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico
2. MARIA ROSALIA TORRES - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 15 FEB 1830 Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico
3. JOSE RAFAEL TORRES - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 08 JUL 1829 Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico
4. JOSE TRINIDAD TORRES - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 15 JUN 1837 Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico
5. MARIA GUADALUPE TORRES - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 09 FEB 1829 Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico

You searched for: Any Event, 1825 - 1865, Mexico
Father: Pedro Torres, Mother: Josefa Ramirez
Exact Spelling: Off
[refine search]
Prepare selected records for download
International Genealogical Index / Mexico - 2
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. RAFAEL TORRES - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 10 APR 1850 Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico
2. JOSE BENITO TORRES - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 09 FEB 1829 Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico

By the looks of it your ancestor, Rafael Torres, remarried in 1850.  This means Ma. Trinidad Márquez died sometime before that.  Did you already know this?

I checked for Pedro Torres' marriage but the only one I could find was this one:

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
  Mexico
Search Results  | Download | Pedigree

PEDRO ANTONIO TORRES
  Male   Family

Marriages:
  Spouse:  ANNA MARIA JOSSEFA AZEBEDO Family
  Marriage:  18 MAY 1806   Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico

Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Source Information:
Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.:  Type:  Printout Call No.:  Type: 

M611046  1785 - 1885  1158281   Film  NONE   

© 1999-2002 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc.  All rights reserved.  English approval: 3/1999
Use of this site constitutes your acceptance of these Conditions of Use (last updated: 3/22/1999).
Privacy Policy (last updated: 10/12/2001).    28    http://www.familysearch.org   v.2.5.0

It's quite possible that these guys could be the ones.  Maybe Acevedo was her second name, but she preferred Torres at other times.  Her third name is Josefa.  Maybe she shortened on some days.

You searched for: Any Event, 1806 - 1846, Mexico
Father: Pedro Torres, Mother: Josefa
Exact Spelling: Off

21. MARIA JOSSEFA ROSALIA TORRE RAMIREZ - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 24 JUN 1806 Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico

       *****Note****** This girl was born in June of 1806, and the marriage I just found was in May 1806.  Can't be them.  Check yourself.  Pedro Torres and Anna Acevedo had children at exactly the same time, Pedro Torres and Ma. Josefa Ramírez, were having theirs. 

22. GEORGE BENITO TORRES RAMIRES - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 20 JUL 1812 Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico
23. JOSEPH ANTONIO RAFAEL THORRES RAMIRES - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 30 JAN 1808 Santa Maria De Los Angeles, Jalisco, Mexico

That's him!!!  This last guy is your ancestor Joseph.  His full name was Joseph Antonio Rafael Torres Ramírez, born in 1808, age 21 in 1829, when he married, and age 42 in 1850, at his second marriage.  These last three are definitely films to get.

Now Márquez.  Found the marriage of Juan Climaco Márquez and Ma. Josefa Loera, rather quickly.  If their daughter married in 1829, was around 20, thus presumably born around 1809, then do a search of plus or minus 10 years from that date.

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
  Mexico
Search Results  | Download | Pedigree

JOSE CLIMACO MARQUEZ
  Male   Family

Marriages:
  Spouse:  MARIA JOSEFA LOERA Family
  Marriage:  23 JUN 1813   San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico

Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Source Information:
Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.:  Type:  Printout Call No.:  Type: 

M604653  1790 - 1819  0443783   Film  NONE   

© 1999-2002 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc.  All rights reserved.  English approval: 3/1999
Use of this site constitutes your acceptance of these Conditions of Use (last updated: 3/22/1999).
Privacy Policy (last updated: 10/12/2001).    26    http://www.familysearch.org   v.2.5.0
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#

See her name was Loera, as it should be, not Luera.  Should be fairly easy to do a parent search now that the parents' date of marriage is known.  Because they were married in 1813, do a search starting from the year 1833, to search 20 years before and 20 years after.  This is important, because the year range automatically goes backward and forward, so why start searching at 1813, and have the IGI search for 20 years before 1813.  That's a waste.  Jump 20 years ahead and it will search the 20 years from 1813 to 1833, plus the 20 years after that, until 1853.  Additionally, if you search for ALL events--not just births--both births and marriages will be included.  Because it'll search until 1853, you might find some late marriages up to that date.  Let's see.

Well I tried every possible name combination of Juan Climaco Márquez and Ma. Josefa Loera/Luera, with and without the Juan and María and with Luera instead of Loera, but nothing.  Oh well!  At least I found the marriage record.  That should be enough to find out who the parents of Juan Climaco and Ma. Josefa were.

Now what kind of a name was "Climaco."  That's an unusual name.  But it made it rather easy to do a search on that name to see what it turned up.  Because he was married in 1813, I figured he must have been born 20 years or so before, around 1793.  I searched that year, with a 5 year backward and forward range and look what I found:

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
  Mexico
Search Results  | Download | Pedigree

JUAN CLIMACO MARQUEZ ESCOBEDO
  Male    

Event(s):
Birth:  Christening:  13 APR 1795   Totatiche, Jalisco, Mexico

Parents:
  Father:  JOSEF MARQUEZ Family
  Mother:  JUANA DE ESCOBEDO  

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Source Information:
Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.:  Type:  Printout Call No.:  Type: 

C617076  1779 - 1798  1164016   Film  NONE   

© 1999-2002 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc.  All rights reserved.  English approval: 3/1999
Use of this site constitutes your acceptance of these Conditions of Use (last updated: 3/22/1999).
Privacy Policy (last updated: 10/12/2001).    26    http://www.familysearch.org   v.2.5.0

Could this be him.  You'll have to get his marriage record to see if he was from Totatiche or if those were his parents.

Joseph, I hope you got something out of all this.  Happy hunting!

Sincerely,
Steven Hernández.